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Ouilyan

THE ATK-MATK-CRIT- BG&WoE problem

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Didnt high-end GXs used to 1shot ppl since ages even on full redus? That shit got broken when they added the 7 or smth cells jump, the high-end GX still can 1shot, and the skill is more "friendly" with mid-high end geared GX (or not MVP ones), but personally what it looks broken in that is the jump, not the 1shot capacity.
RK alrdy got alot of nerfs, i dont feel like they need more, maybe in BG they are hard to handle bcuz ppl dont play as a team at all, in woe, they have almost same/lower impact as an DB RK if ur guild know how to handle them.
Everyone alrdy realized than those numbers than u guys are giving is bcuz of the lack of reductions, most of the times a well geared GX will oneshot every support/low hp class , only some jobs could be able to tank it (due to high HP pools or gambling and guessing their element).
I wonder why no one of these ppl than thinks than a RK/GX is broken isnt talking about Asura/Reverb than are braindead skills/builds with such a high reward.
Imagine having reverb performers having same and higher dmg than a tetra warlock (job than focus on magic damage) while they are also able to play as support/disabler in the same build.
Leaving memes aside, this kind of discussions are "healthy", and not letting them only for commissioners is actually good, because that part of the community than isnt from a guild with commissioners, or they only play BG/PVP also can know what the fck is going on with the nerfs/buffs. Is true than those discussions are public, but after how many decissions?

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Fu Windsword said:

Still doesn't make any sense, for i with exactly 78% and either Furious Ice titan combo or GR,  plus Prisma Protection and CKS. still recieving over 300k CIs from some people.

 

If you make the math of that 300k dmg i recieved, transtalted into your gear, there's no way you tank it.

Maybe you're tanking  PVMer's CI

Are both your accessories 6% all resist? Are you wearing reduction cards on every available slot? Do you have Medium Shadow Mail equipped? Are you sure they're hitting neutral if you're wearing GR? Are you letting them dark claw you before CIng? There's a multitude of things that could be making you take more damage than I am. Can you show any evidence of you taking a 300k CI on 78% DH reducts, KB, Furious Ice Titan and without dark claw applied, on non-MVP HH? That sounds like a massive exageration.

 

I have no motivation whatsoever to be lying or misleading about my experience vs CI, especially after we're nerfing SBK.  I don't play GX, I don't have a GX, I don't run CI in my WoE guild, I don't have any GX guildmates who run CI on BG, there is no possible reason for me to be defending an unbalanced CI state. If I thought CI was oppressive I would have been in favor of nerfing it, just like I was in favor of nerfing RK, and just like how I'm trying to nerf SBK and Asura. I'm not in favor of any changes to CI because right now in the current meta I do not have any problems vs CI and do not consider CI oppressive to play against at all. 

 

As an aside I agree with Koen that magic performer is by far the strongest job in the current meta. It can do absolutely everything - a shit ton of damage, massive utility, traps, amazing debuffs. It's just uncontested in how useful it is.

Edited by Shall

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Koenma said:

this kind of discussions are "healthy", and not letting them only for commissioners is actually good, because that part of the community than isnt from a guild with commissioners, or they only play BG/PVP also can know what the fck is going on with the nerfs/buffs. Is true than those discussions are public, but after how many decissions?

Totally agree with this part.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Koenma said:

Asura/Reverb than are braindead skills/builds with such a high reward.

 

I haven't had any problems with tanking Reverb tbh (EXCEPT when i'm in ATK gear). if you're wearing  defense gear is easy to tank. Maybe is not the same in WOE where you recieve a lot of different sources of damage, including several reverberations at the same time. But i don't know, since my only concern is BG, i would let WOE comms decide that.

 

Asura was mentioned a lot of times throught the topic. But i personally consider is OK because of the drawbacks it has (just like Crush Strike, that also has strong drawbacks, and unlike CI and Soul breaker that doesn't have any drawbacks)

 

1 minute ago, Shall said:

Are both your accessories 6% all resist? Are you wearing reduction cards on every available slot? Do you have Medium Shadow Mail equipped? Are you sure they're hitting neutral if you're wearing GR? Are you letting them dark claw you before CIng? There's a multitude of things that could be making you take more damage than I am. Can you show any evidence of you taking a 300k CI on 78% DH reducts, KB, Furious Ice Titan and without dark claw applied? That sounds like a massive exageration.

 

 

As i edited my last message, already answered most of that.:

15 minutes ago, Fu Windsword said:

You have 17% demi-human damage left, i have 22% yet i have F.urious Ice titan that is another -20%, so it becomes 17.6%. We're more or less even, yet you have a little more elemental resistances due to the MIR and PKS. OK, but is not enough to make you survive

 

If you make the math of that 300k dmg i recieved, transtalted into your gear, there's no way you can tank it.

No matter how you make the math,  the difference doesn't make UP for you to survive that damage. Continuing with what i stated in the last message: Let's say  I have 17% element resist, without that resist  the 300k turns into 344.827.  You have 32% multi-elemental resist due to having  2 MIR and PKS, which i don't . The remaining damage is 234.482. Now, you have another 5% medium size resist, still 222.758 Damage. Still impossible for you to tank it (unless  you guess the element OR you're wearing Tao Gunka, so you have over 222.758 HP). But if the player is not wearing INCA/Thana, then Tao Gunka increases the damage recieved, so still doesn't make sense..

 

Again, are you sure you're not Tanking PVMer's CI??

 

7 minutes ago, Shall said:

Are you sure they're hitting neutral if you're wearing GR?


I thought as veteran you'd know it, but GR always reduces a portion of the damage of Physical jobs as GX, no matter what endow they use , because the stat attack is not enchantable by normal means (also, it have already been mentioned in this topic before). Anyway, i made the math with Furious Ice Titan for it to make it easier.

 

 

 

 

 


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2 minutes ago, Fu Windsword said:

 

Totally agree with this part.

 

 

 

I haven't had any problems with tanking Reverb tbh (EXCEPT when i'm in ATK gear). if you're wearing  defense gear is easy to tank. Maybe is not the same in WOE where you recieve a lot of different sources of damage, including several reverberations at the same time. But i don't know, since my only concern is BG, i would let WOE comms decide that.

 

Asura was mentioned a lot of times throught the topic. But i personally consider is OK because of the drawbacks it has (just like Crush Strike, that also has strong drawbacks, and unlike CI and Soul breaker that doesn't have any drawbacks)

 

 

As i edited my last message, already answered most of that.:

No matter how you make the math,  the difference doesn't make UP for you to survive that damage. Continuing with what i stated in the last message: Let's say  I have 17% element resist, without that resist  the 300k turns into 344.827.  You have 32% multi-elemental resist due to having  2 MIR and PKS, which i don't . The remaining damage is 234.482. Now, you have another 5% medium size resist, still 222.758 Damage. Still impossible for you to tank it (unless  you guess the element OR you're wearing Tao Gunka, so you have over 222.758 HP). But if the player is not wearing INCA/Thana, then Tao Gunka increases the damage recieved, so still doesn't make sense..

 

Again, are you sure you're not Tanking PVMer's CI??

 


I thought as veteran you'd know it, but GR always reduces a portion of the damage of Physical jobs as GX, no matter what endow they use , because the stat attack is not enchantable by normal means (also, it have already been mentioned in this topic before). Anyway, i made the math with Furious Ice Titan for it to make it easier.

 

 

 

 

 

Or you don't actually get hit by 300k non-dark claw non disable CIs and you're exaggerating the damage

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22 minutes ago, Fu Windsword said:

I thought as veteran you'd know it, but GR always reduces a portion of the damage of Physical jobs as GX, no matter what endow they use , because the stat attack is not enchantable by normal means (also, it have already been mentioned in this topic before). Anyway, i made the math with Furious Ice Titan for it to make it easier.

GX's damage comes mostly from EDP which boosts heavily weapon ATK and equipment ATK, so I doubt reducing only the status ATK is that helpful. I'd rather use a furious ice titan personally and reduce everything.


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Ok let's say the 300k is only the dark clawed damage. 1 Minute cooldown to do that absurdly untankable damage. Big cooldown, right?

 

Meanwhile, the GX still can still SBK for 50 to 100k damage per hit, that is almost full spammable. No problem, Soul Breaker will kill anything that is not resistant to Ranged (as Mecha,  RG or a Job with high ranged resistance). Wait 1 minute killing other people and hidding, then finisih the Mecha/RG with Dark Claw and CI. Let's say you use high ranged resistance to endure Soul breaker, like 80% demi human and 60% ranged. You will lose a lot of other resistances to do so, so the GX will CI you FROM RANGE (cause CI makes you jump from range, but is MELEE), and you'll be one-shotted even without Dark Claw. This not counting GX can Venom Impress for another  extra 50% damage, which is a lot, even when it makes your element predictable (cause poison damage is reductable to 0 by either Poison  or  Undead armor), but  you lose Furious Ice Titan/GR to change the element of your armor to poison/undead, and that makes you weak to other elements as  Neutral or Fire. The GX only have to press 1 key and you'll die anyway. He made you voluntarilly drop  1 resistance card.

 

Still doesn't look like a balanced class to me, no matter how you see it.

3 minutes ago, Leinarth said:

GX's damage comes mostly from EDP which boosts heavily weapon ATK and equipment ATK, so I doubt reducing only the status ATK is that helpful. I'd rather use a furious ice titan personally and reduce everything.

And again, as you already read, that is exactly what i made all the math with Furious ice titan card.


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3 minutes ago, Fu Windsword said:

Ok let's say the 300k is only the dark clawed damage. 1 Minute cooldown to do that absurdly untankable damage. Big cooldown, right?

 

Meanwhile, the GX still can still SBK for 50 to 100k damage per hit, that is almost full spammable. No problem, Soul Breaker will kill anything that is not resistant to Ranged (as Mecha,  RG or a Job with high ranged resistance). Wait 1 minute killing other people and hidding, then finisih the Mecha/RG with Dark Claw and CI. Let's say you use high ranged resistance to endure Soul breaker, like 80% demi human and 60% ranged. You will lose a lot of other resistances to do so, so the GX will CI you FROM RANGE (cause CI makes you jump from range, but is MELEE), and you'll be one-shotted even without Dark Claw. This not counting GX can Venom Impress for another  extra 50% damage, which is a lot, even when it makes your element predictable (cause poison damage is reductable to 0 by either Poison  or  Undead armor), but  you lose Furious Ice Titan/GR to change the element of your armor to poison/undead, and that makes you weak to other elements as  Neutral or Fire. The GX only have to press 1 key and you'll die anyway. He made you voluntarilly drop  1 resistance card.

 

Still doesn't look like a balanced class to me, no matter how you see it.

Have you tried bringing it up in the BG commissioner chat


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11 minutes ago, Fu Windsword said:

Meanwhile, the GX still can still SBK for 50 to 100k damage per hit, that is almost full spammable.

yes, sbk is being looked into:

1 hour ago, Shall said:

and just like how I'm trying to nerf SBK

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Posted (edited)

image.png.777045eadda793e16a9e9925dff79311.png


PVM CI BTW

 

112k (tankable with just Mins buffs and Inc HP pots), and this is with him using provoke and shield spell, and me not using FIT or a 2nd resist MIR cause I was too lazy to decard. If I was on FIT it would have been like 90k.

Edited by Shall

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Shall said:

image.png.777045eadda793e16a9e9925dff79311.png


PVM CI BTW

 

112k (tankable with just Mins buffs and Inc HP pots), and this is with him using provoke and shield spell, and me not using FIT. If I was on FIT it would have been like 90k.

Can you post a replay of that to show its not fake? maybe you used other, worse gears for the battlelog screenshot


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