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Hector

Monster Hunting Roles Blog - Tank

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Firstly, as we mentioned previously, we have started work on MH3 (which is the designation of the next update, 3 star hunts, including the Great Monsters Sybaris and Hrungnir). While working on this update, we found there were changes that we wanted to push out sooner rather than later, as MH3 is still going to take us some time to complete. Therefore, we decided to create a short series of patches based around updating each of the roles to a standard whereby we can concentrate on MH3 development. This generally will involve building upon the knowledge from the MH2 release, as well as suggestions and input from players, so that we can create a solid base for the future. As you may have already guessed, this is the first patch that will be centered around the Tank role and all that it entails.

 

As it is, MH3 is planned to be about the same size and scope of MH2. This means new monsters, new mechanics, and, of course, new gear. However, whilst we have been happy with the release of MH2, there are certainly lessons to be learnt from that and we are now looking to apply these to MH3. To that end, there are still a number of loose ends in MH2 that we wish to fix up so that MH3 development is much smoother than MH2's early development.

 

We have identified, with your help, certain weaknesses in MH2 content that require our attention. We hope the following series of patches, which we hope to release fairly swiftly, can address these issues.

 


 

 

Tank role

 

With that said, our first patch centers around Tanks, tanking and related mechanics! In this section, we'll work through the patch notes and explain some of our changes with you. First, changes made directly to the Tank role skills.

 

Previously, Defiant Stand was a skill which, when used, created a barrier that exploded for damage based upon how much damage the shield absorbed... Except this effect never made it in game, and the shield explosion always did a flat 50k damage! This skill sadly fell by the wayside during development and remained in an incomplete state until today. Rather than fix this, we decided to get away from using a shield. We believed it was a good idea in concept, but because of the client limitations (not being able to properly show a shield amount) in practice, there wasn't much depth to it. Instead, we decided to create a "big cooldown" ability for tanks to use when the party gets in trouble. This should hopefully be much more useful than the original inception of the skill would ever have been.

 

  • Defiant Stand

Defiant Stand will now grant full immunity to all damage for its duration. In return, aggro cannot be build while this effect is active and you will become Emotionally Drained when it ends (meaning you cannot build up Fury stacks).
Use this skill wisely when you're in a bind and try to keep yourself alive to protect the rest of your hunters!

 

Next is Climactic Fury while interesting in design and effect, is problematic. It's always done either too much damage, or too little. The changes to the formula are hard to explain, but bear with us. Originally, the base damage from the skill was calculated using max HP, attack and hard defense, weighed in that order. Because of the large influence which HP had on the formula, we ran into a situation where one could stack purely HP, and do an extreme amount of damage. The final damage was also modified by how much HP you had currently (the lower health you have the more damage you deal), before being modified by the Fury stacks reduction formula.

 

  • Climactic Fury

In the new formula, we have reduced the effects of max and current HP, attack and defense for the base formula. Furthermore, the Fury stacks modifier is no longer applied at the end of the formula, but directly on the base damage. As with the old formula, the biggest driver in increasing your damage with this skill is higher Fury stacks; as an arbitrary example, considering an average tanking build, the damage increase from 1 -> 2 Fury stacks is ~8m but from 5 -> 6 Fury stacks is ~20m.

Due to the damage loss, Climactic Fury now generates 50% more aggro.

One final change that affects this skill is that Emotionally Drained now blocks Climactic Fury skill usage, ontop of blocking Fury stack generation.

 

We made certain when balancing the new formula that the skill should still fill a role that players had found for it, for example, with killing Nysori's clones.

 


 

 

Aggro Generation

 

Next up, we've changed some of the fundamentals around tanking: specifically, Aggro generation. No one would contest that MH2 was released blindly. We did as much play-testing as we could in-house but we didn't have much data to work on and base our decisions on. Thankfully, this has changed, and we have a plethora of MH-related data at our hands to help us balance mechanics and content as well as our group of testers which we are grateful have volunteered. One such mechanic is aggro generation which, we will admit, was guessed.

 

In this patch, the aggro generation of most roles has changed.

 

  • Tank

Previous generation: 200%

New generation: 300%

 

  • Healer

Previous generation: 100%

New generation: 250%

 

  • Utility

Previous generation: 100%

New generation: 250%

 

Note: these modifiers are inherent to the role and to clarify, 100% is base generation. The underlying mechanics of how aggro is generated remains unchanged.

 

We made these changes to fine tune tanking, with the general idea from many people that tanking felt bad. We heard many times that tanking was both too easy and too hard! Which leads me to our next point...

 


 

 

Role-based tutorials and skill description updates

 

Each patch will now bring with it an update to the Role Manager on the airship that will gives some tips on how to play that role. We found that some players did not fully understand some of the mechanics at play in MH, namely how aggro worked. To this end, we provide a more clear description through the NPC until we can find a better, more involved way of helping players understand these custom mechanics.

 

For example, the tanking NPC may tell you:

"Aggro itself is generated by how much damage your attacks do - therefore, the more damage you do, the more Aggro you generate!".

The NPC will also provide insight into how certain skills work. We found a lot of people struggled with the effect of Sentinel, so we included a tidbit for the NPC to talk about:

"If you lose Aggro, fear not, that's what your Sentinel skill is for! This temporarily makes you the target of the Great Monster for the duration, regardless of everyone's Aggro."

 

Skill descriptions have also been re-written to include more detailed information on how the skill works in order to increase transparency and increase understanding of skills' mechanics.

 

 


 

 

Closing remarks

 

A lot of these changes have been data-driven, particularly involving Climactic Fury and the aggro generation mechanics, so we're hoping that we can skip the large teething stage that came with much of the earlier MH-related content.

 

We want to thank everyone for your input and your patience. We are all continuing to listen to everything that everyone is saying. We apologize for the delay in our responses until now but we hope that we can move forward to together provide the best experience possible. Our next blog will be outlining our plans for the changes related to the healer role, namely Doram's integration into it!


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Why isn't MATK considered on Climatic for magical tanks? Woudn't that also help increase tank variety and job viability inside MH2? DPS and Utility skills don't care if you're physical or magical

Rayle1gh, Darcy and vTours :D like this

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Hector said:

Next is Climactic Fury while interesting in design and effect, is problematic. It's always done either too much damage, or too little. The changes to the formula are hard to explain, but bear with us. Originally, the base damage from the skill was calculated using max HP, attack and hard defense, weighed in that order. Because of the large influence which HP had on the formula, we ran into a situation where one could stack purely HP, and do an extreme amount of damage. The final damage was also modified by how much HP you had currently (the lower health you have the more damage you deal), before being modified by the Fury stacks reduction formula.

 

  • Climactic Fury

In the new formula, we have reduced the effects of max and current HP, attack and defense for the base formula. Furthermore, the Fury stacks modifier is no longer applied at the end of the formula, but directly on the base damage. As with the old formula, the biggest driver in increasing your damage with this skill is higher Fury stacks; as an arbitrary example, considering an average tanking build, the damage increase from 1 -> 2 Fury stacks is ~8m but from 5 -> 6 Fury stacks is ~20m.

Due to the damage loss, Climactic Fury now generates 50% more aggro.

One final change that affects this skill is that Emotionally Drained now blocks Climactic Fury skill usage, ontop of blocking Fury stack generation.

 

We made certain when balancing the new formula that the skill should still fill a role that players had found for it, for example, with killing Nysori's clones.

 


 

 

 

No more RGs in Tanking Roles.... sad cause is a GIGANTIC nerf, not even a big one... now people will always prefer Minstrell ...
 


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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Hector said:

"Aggro itself is generated by how much damage your attacks do - therefore, the more damage you do, the more Aggro you generate!".

 

How much? mmmm then the tank will must to have high damage gear? 
I mean, right now you can get the agro with sucessive hit, is this gonna change? 

@Ouilyan Since when the partys want RG as tanks? I play a lot of mh "just for fun", and
the most of the time, ministrel, sorc and sometimes mechas are required.

This change the only thing that is doing: RG will not kill solo "easily" Garro.

Edited by IsaacAsimov
erkam5 and Vanguarda de Boros like this

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Posted (edited)

Glad to see you keep working so hard in the content, and being transparent with the information about it. /no1

 

And Glad to read this:

6 hours ago, Hector said:

We have identified, with your help, certain weaknesses in MH2 content that require our attention. We hope the following series of patches, which we hope to release fairly swiftly, can address these issues.

 

 

 

 

Also, Mr. Luxuri and Hector, I'll kindly ask you for the 3rd time, hope you this time you read the question an answer me:

Are you planning on making relevant other builds? Or you plan Jobs to be locked into a single build?

 

I'm asking this because i want my favorite ENDGAME builds (AA, IB, SW), to be as relevant as the NEWBIE build (WC).

This topic is very relevant for me to know, cause is pretty much the reason why i started disliking MH2 and stopped playing it, and is what could make me come back to it.

 

If you don't have plans over this topic yet, please let me know it too.

Thanks you for your answer. /no1

Edited by Fu Windsword

 Compilation of the Stories and Legends of all the MVP <---- Click Here 

Visit my Youtube Channel Here. <---- RO Youtube Channel

13  15

 

 

 

 


 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, IsaacAsimov said:

How much? mmmm then the tank will must to have high damage gear? 
I mean, right now you can get the agro with sucessive hit, is this gonna change?

I just want to say one thing now in case other people ask too:

This is exactly the same as how aggro is generated currently. We have not changed, in any way, the underlying mechanics of aggro generation. We have only tweaked the modifiers mentioned in the post.

 

This is exactly why we are writing these posts and adding tutorial NPC dialogue. There is a lot of misconceptions on how certain mechanics work in MH and we want to provide clarity on how they work.

IsaacAsimov likes this

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Just now, Luxuri said:

I just want to say one thing now in case other people ask too:

This is exactly the same as how aggro is generated currently. We have not changed, in any way, the underlying mechanics of aggro generation. We have only tweaked the modifiers mentioned in the post.

 

This is exactly why we are writing these posts and adding tutorial NPC dialogue. There is a lot of misconceptions on how certain mechanics work in MH and we want to provide clarity on how they work.

Ooo i have to explain something then: When i got the agro with Sentinel, everything is ok, however i was curious about "how much damage you attacks do".
Just to know, howlong the sentinel effect remains. because if i dont do any attack against the mvp, after sentinel, the agro goes to other party member, and is 
not for the damage, cause i dont have high dps gear, it is more for keep: the attacks on the mvp.-

Maybe i am wrong, however that is what i noticied in my Mh2 Battles.- 

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thank you for not changing CF completely,

at least we still able to help on the charm part as tank,

 

however Sentinel sometimes fail to work, have checked on that skill ?

reduce its cooldown or please ensure us the skill will always work on great monsters regardless the condition is ?


2Lazy%20Anna

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