NovaLabs - The Sunken Sands

[Hector]

We are here to introduce one of our future pieces of content, The Sunken Sands, available on NovaLabs right now! (Make sure to patch)
This is an early version of the map and monsters, with the purpose of testing and gathering feedback over this new concept from the community.
The entrance to the Sunken Sands is at the south-eastern end of the Ancient Factory (Juperos field 3, 314,119).
 

The main concept of the map is the separation between two families of monsters: Primordial and Pestilent.
All common monsters are all Small Size, with Primordial monsters being Earth / Insect and Pestilent monsters being Poison / Fish.
Players will be able to obtain a new buff that will significantly increase their damage dealt (currently more than doubles your damage), but only against one of the two mob families, or a much less powerful buff to deal with both.
For this initial testing session go to the Juperos Expedition Camp (@go jup) in order to obtain these new buffs.
 

As we mentioned in a previous post, these monsters are exceptionally resilient compared to monsters seen before. We're playing with the idea of the map where you can't simply run in with little to no preparation and kill everything in your screen with a single skill cast. We're introducing this buff system as another method to promote that idea, without introducing overly restrictive mechanics that simply invalidate particular class or build choice.
 

All numbers are subject to change following testing and feedback. This includes:
- Monster Health
- Monster Damage
- Monster Skills
- Monster Density
- Buff amounts
 

Size, race and elements are unlikely change, as they are part of the design and concept of this content.
 

For any bug, feedback or comment please contact [GM] Hector on Discord. [Hector#6718]

[ryousama962]

1. make it more tankier

2. make it individual drop and ip lock so we can farm as parties.

3. if 2 is impossible, then add more monster density and ignore 1

[Ethreain]

2 hours ago, ryousama962 said:

1. make it more tankier

2. make it individual drop and ip lock so we can farm as parties.

3. if 2 is impossible, then add more monster density and ignore 1

Reacting to number 2, I'd rather have them drop like normal first and see how people will adjust. Problem with individual drop and shadow gears being crafted here is the high possibility of leeching. Would have been better if the parties are not just full on 12 man party for the sake of getting more drops due to individual drops. Like solo/smaller party that is put logically (like tank+healer+damage 3-man geared party) can be rewarded equally or more for being geared/prepared rather than just putting up 12 man party with some people with no preparation at all(like in the case of those relying on leech).

[ryousama962]

Idk if this has been discussed yet, but Biolo can mob half the map with just bloodsucker skill and hellplant. Solo farming will be hell with all the mobber that kills slow and low density mob. Incentive for party farming please.

[Ethreain]

1 hour ago, ryousama962 said:

Idk if this has been discussed yet, but Biolo can mob half the map with just bloodsucker skill and hellplant. Solo farming will be hell with all the mobber that kills slow and low density mob. Incentive for party farming please.

I think they have a solution for those mobbing while killing the mobs slowly. Like what they did to thana11/12. If they do that, and increase the mob density, hp, damage, I doubt there will be a need to incentivize party farming. A well formed party in itself can kill mobs faster than a solo player already. Giving minimal incentive to party will atleast give solo players motivation to gear up and try the map for themselves as solo, rather than being forced to party play just to get better rewards.

[ryousama962]

4 hours ago, Ethreain said:

I think they have a solution for those mobbing while killing the mobs slowly. Like what they did to thana11/12.

KS fest, nice.

 

4 hours ago, Ethreain said:

Giving minimal incentive to party will atleast give solo players motivation to gear up and try the map for themselves as solo, rather than being forced to party play just to get better rewards.

Wrong, giving party incentive and give solo player motivation is two different things. No one forced you to play party, go play solo if that's what you want. You'll still get same drop because individual drop anyway.

[Ethreain]

On 3/8/2023 at 5:54 PM, ryousama962 said:

KS fest, nice.

 

Wrong, giving party incentive and give solo player motivation is two different things. No one forced you to play party, go play solo if that's what you want. You'll still get same drop because individual drop anyway.

Actually I think it's to specifically avoid the griefing part of using perfect dodge or going full tank mode, luring many mobs, slow killing etc. which makes it impossible for others to farm the map which is one of the problem you're addressing.

Getting the same drop when playing as solo/party is a problem though. Why would you go solo when it's easier to be on a party, less investments and you'll get the same or more? So much for being prepared(overrefining/enchanting/gearing), rather just look for capable members and get carried, or a leecher then just pay loots or zeny for the service. I'm not against any end game geared leechers, it's just that if that ever gets implemented, no one should criticize leechers cause it's basically encouraging them to do so.

The more important thing though is the update on the values(damage, hp, mob density, etc). Maybe some tweaks will address concerns like drops or how solo/party play will happen. 

[ryousama962]

1 hour ago, Ethreain said:

Actually I think it's to specifically avoid the griefing part of using perfect dodge or going full tank mode, luring many mobs, slow killing etc. which makes it impossible for others to farm the map which is one of the problem you're addressing.

Enabling ks is never a good answer. Even in f12 thana where most people can one hit already, there's always drama involving ks.

 

An endgame player can just wait for weaker player to mob and ks because its impossible to one hit there. Unless the goal here is to make weaker player play somewhere else while endgame geared player monopolize the market. Not saying its a bad thing, I also want them to spawn faster lmao.

 

1 hour ago, Ethreain said:

Getting the same drop when playing as solo/party is a problem though. Why would you go solo when it's easier to be on a party, less investments and you'll get the same or more?  So much for being prepared(overrefining/enchanting/gearing),

Then just join party? Once again no one forbids you to join party or going solo. For example Bio 5 is faster with party, but some endgame geared people still goes solo. 

 

1 hour ago, Ethreain said:

rather just look for capable members and get carried, or a leecher then just pay loots or zeny for the service. I'm not against any end game geared leechers, it's just that if that ever gets implemented, no one should criticize leechers cause it's basically encouraging them to do so.

It's not weekly/leveling/quest place, why would people want to leech there? And unlike Bio 5/Einbech 3/Odin 4 etc, the monster here is tanky and almost impossible to one hit. If for example max number of member is 3, you just get 1 leech because the other 2 is DPS and Cardinal. People would rather just go duo with ab especially when there's no penalty for the leech to steal the items, and some gm actually encourage people to do it to stop the leeching. And with the level 250 cap, unless the leech is level 250, most would not risk the chance of losing exp, because at least the minimal level to enter the new place is 240 (juperos 3), and getting exp above 240 is hell.

 

Moreover with 3 people parties, players that play full support characters like cardinal and performers can also have the opportunity to experience the new farming place. It would also open the possibilities of non mainstream build to help lower the mob hp (like dps cardinal, comet+raid autospell abyss chaser, or even physical performer's Rose Blossom's bloom aoe damage).

 

Lastly, with party plays, high end geared player can also join in the fun (not just end game players), and making end game gear progression feels so much more rewarding. Which I have not feel for awhile.

[Eyes]

9 hours ago, ryousama962 said:

Moreover with 3 people parties, players that play full support characters like cardinal and performers can also have the opportunity to experience the new farming place. It would also open the possibilities of non mainstream build to help lower the mob hp (like dps cardinal, comet+raid autospell abyss chaser, or even physical performer's Rose Blossom's bloom aoe damage).

 

You WILL play meta DPS classes. You WILL play solo.

Meme builds get the noose. This is non-negotiable.

RK GX RO 2023.

 

Seriously though what's the purpose to making the mobs tanky as hell if not to encourage more party play?

Its just the same farming method of TP -> IB except now I need to hold the turbo button on IB for a bit longer. 

 

Even with the buff mechanic listed above, its just going back to "Deal more damage to X" but X had its HP inflated... So whats the point?

Ah but I have to pick the mob I deal more damage to! Strategy! Even if I kill Monsters X significantly faster, I'm still going to stand in place AoE-ing Monsters Y anyways.

 

Late Renewal [Post 175] has made it so that no one really cares about the mechanics nor interactions with mobs matter, and instead have transformed them into nothing but vehicles that carry the loots you need to craft more gears, rather than a piece of gameplay to strategize play around itself. At least that's the mind set I've seen most players have sunk into, and I believe with carefully crafted experiences by the Staff / Dev team, another shift in mentality can take place.

 

I like the idea of doing something interesting though, but regrettably I don't see this achieving too much else aside from just being a slightly gimmick map where mobs have enough HP they don't just melt away to your Super Saiyan damage. Why not make it so that the selectable buffs are more than just damage buffs? Or if it is to be a simple unga bunga damage increase, why not make it so that support classes can- when casting support skills inflict the monster on screen with a debuff that makes them take more damage too [Akin to Raid].

If not why bother reinventing the wheel and just make it so that its jup3 again with mobs players just have to farm for items to trade in for previously cash shop items like everything else.

 

Hell, shift the numbers around enough, increase the EXP gains, have Party Drops, let other classes or party members do something;  even something as simple as: "Monsters take 10% increased damage per unique party member damaging it." and suddenly its appealing to gather the gang together, even if the other party members aren't Giga Whale end game players.

 

Re-incentivize party play, stop letting the fear of leeches ruin the possibility of enjoying the game again with your fellow gamer.

[Paranoid]

Personally, I think that we don't need any more npc buffs to make content interesting/challenging/whatever. We already have a wide variety of skills available, a majority of which are barely used because, as the person above said, we just try to hit hard enough to kill shit so that mechanics are irrelevant.

 

I would really like to see mobs actually cast skills that matter. Skills that you have to either plan against, or party to do efficiently. Mobs dealing more damage, taking more damage, having more hp (i.e., needing more damage), all of these work on the same principle: that dps/dpm is supreme. Any skill that doesn't one shot me or otherwise reduces my efficiency, I don't give a flying crap about.

 

Switch things up, like having all mobs cast dispel as their first skill (like valk), or overpowered EQ, or full strip, reflect shield & defender or any number of currently existing skills that are really annoying/difficult to deal with as a solo player.

 

Tl;dr: Encourage party play by taking the focus away from dealing damage, so that just having end-game gear is not enough to participate in (read: efficiently farm) content.

 

Edit: I would also request that we redefine the word 'planning' away from decarding my equips for the 100th time. Immensely frustrating concept to base content around. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but god it's annoying.

Edited March 14 by Paranoid